Your correct Greg I haven't done the blanket thing. I do have the fiberglass though...probably should do that tonight. I can't wait to hear them with some backs with some fiberglass on them to stop those reflections. ;)
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Your correct Greg I haven't done the blanket thing. I do have the fiberglass though...probably should do that tonight. I can't wait to hear them with some backs with some fiberglass on them to stop those reflections. ;)
This so reminds me of that mad max movie!! Are you in Australia or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by VolvoHeretic
I'm going to reshoot that zeppelin part in no quarter when he's playing the pipe organ but I'm gonna leave the projector off because it does make some noise so I can hear just the speakers... I predict crazy awesome bass. maybe I'll cut some fiberglass and lay it against the wall and then shove the speakers up to it to kind of seal them and cut down on the reflections.
BBL with some more video.
EDIT: Ok I put the insulation behind them and shoved them up against the wall. The bass became punchy and not to my liking so I took it out and just put one 14 in wide strip 38 inches tall right behind the middle of the cabs and shoved them against the wall and it still was a bit to punchy. then I took it all out and shoved them against the wall sounded good then I shoved them against the wall and all the way in the corner. I like it a lot there, gonna listen to them like that for awhile I guess. probably gonna end up with MDF backs with 65 SqIn ports just like Altec said. That way I can pull them off the wall and still have what I have now sorta.
Ok this morning I decided to try some backs so I gathered up my scrap wood and put backs on all but 1 small 4 x 15 area in the bottom part of the back. It sounded just like the heathkits, boomy and the lows were way loud and you could hardly hear voices so I thought about it and decided to try this (the picture)once. They sound very nice and level and open now. Don't ask me why they just do. Those are 4 openings each 1 3/8 by 15 totaling 82.5 sqIn.
I shot a little bit of Avatar with them like this, will post up as soon as I get it on you tube.
As GM said, you're building a sort of Onken Lite, or Ultraflex EZ. If it works, it works.
I had to look up Onken... I see what Greg was saying now. yep I like the Onken alignment. It's a very open airy the people are standing right in my living room talking type of sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Panomaniac
EDIT: I decided to try swapping out my marantz back to the Harman Kardon....after 12 minutes I switched it back. Marantz's rock!! I just put a bid on a 2270 70wpc on ebay. Mine is a 2216 16wpc.
Just an update, and an opportunity to kick my own ass on national internetvision. ok, so I've been plagued by this "stupid one channel doesn't sound as good as the other one" problem for about 4 months now. and as I said I swapped out the Marantz for the HK for about 12 minutes. BTW HK's are totally gutless wonders. So I switched back to the marantz and at the end of the night I'm saying man something doesn't sound right the left channel gain on the Nady needs to be cranked way up to sound right again. so I shut it all down because it was like 4 am. I fired it up the next day...same problem so I disconnect the Nady...problem is still there. I swap speakers from side to side problem is still with the left side So I determine the Marantz has a bad channel. I make a deal to swap it off for a brand spanking new totally rebuilt Marantz 2230. So I hook the HK back up and guess what....same problem on the left side....I pull out the speaker wire from behind the couch and run all the way down the full length nothing wrong..... so I go to the back of the receiver and start turning the rca plugs from the Nady while they're plugged in and then I see the ones from the dvd player and I'm like no way!!!! I spin one boom the channel is totally back to life.... Story of my life.....anywho my 16 watter is on it's way to Cali and My new 30 watter should be here in a couple of weeks... As far as the speakers go...they sound great even with the HK but when the marantz was running both channels right, they were out of this world sounding. and I'm sure they will be even better when the new receiver gets here.
Finding the tuning/port size that best suits your drivers, cabinets, and room acoustics can often times require an empirical/trial and error approach. Sounds like you found a great tuning/port size for your speakers/room acoustics--enjoy!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
Hey, at least you finally found the problem (yourself) and didn't have to hire an electrician or an exorcist! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
Yeah I'm not sure I'm totally finished but they are definitely sounding really great. I put some peel n stick stuff for rain gutters on the bafflesQuote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
it helped a lot I think, and I only have one layer of it on one baffle 2 on the other. (I ran out) There's also one layer of it on the inside top panel in one speaker. I think it's doing a nice job of cutting panel resonances. I'm gonna grab 2 more rolls of it on payday and probably do 2 layers on all panels. Also gonna swap out the plywood backs with some mdf and those will also have a layer of it on them.
Slowly it goes but if I stop and check every change to see if it's better or worse slowly they will become better and better. I also got the back panels mapped out so I can get both out of 1 4x4 sheet and will have some left over to cut strips that can be screwed to the sides of the back panels to shrink the onken gap and see if that sounds better or worse too. : )
Muahahaha, glad to hear I'm not the only one with termination issues.;)I had a 2270 and thought the phono section was pretty darn good. The 2270 was just a lot of the same Marantz goodness, IMO, very robust amp section and that signature sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
I totally agree westend, Marantz's are magical. :) Here's the guy I went to he appears to be really good with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by westend9
http://www.irebuildmarantz.com/policy.html
I'm thinking of buying a new amp. Does anyone out there know if the new Marantz amps are still "good"? Or, are there any other solid state amps that are currently being manufactured that anyone cares to recommend that would work well with high efficiency Altecs? Sorry for the slight detour of your thread, Cradeldorf.....
Well, it's not an Onken alignment, just looks like one at a glance. Based on your remarks, you would find a true Onken or Jensen Ultraflex alignment way too 'punchy'/'boomy'.Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
Yours is ~aperiodic, i.e. is somewhat resistively loaded due to having very high aspect ratio slot vents. You can get the same result with a regular reflex by stretching cloth of the right porosity over it ['click' test]. Yours are also next to cab wall boundaries, so are acoustically fairly long vents which combined results in a slower roll-off [better transient response] to a lower Fb than the smaller reflex vent. Pushing them up close to the wall further lowers effective vent length, so my SWAG is that yours are effectively an EBS alignment.
Bottom line, a very good venting choice when speakers are located near/at a wall or corner, though sealed or very low tuned [< 20 Hz] EBS alignments tend to be best overall for corners.
GM
Thank's for the clarity Greg, I tried something different this morning...it was a total fail so I put it back the way it was and it sounds re markedly awesome again. I can't explain it all I can do is comment on it, Loving them right now. They sound best when I keep them about 8 inches off the side wall and about 4 -6 off the back wall.
You're welcome! What did you try, etc.?
GM
This. It was horrible. :redface2: I was shooting for just a little more openness sounding and maybe a little more bass. It was a little more open but about as far away from flat as you could get. you could hardly make out what people were saying and the lows were crazy loud.
That good and funky! Thanks for sharing.
OK, never seen anything like that before. You're obviously leaving no stone unturned in your search for the ideal tuning/porting--got to give you credit for that!
A variation on G.A. Briggs's ~aperiodic vent. He used many parallel saw cuts. Wider ones need to be covered with an empirically found damping material. As is, it tuned your cab somewhat higher.Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
One inexpensive variant to try would be a rear cover made of braced pegboard.
GM
Funny you should mention that because that's exactly what I was picturing because when I was a we little lad we used to have a stereo console and the back panel had a bunch of about 3/8 holes in it right where the speaker backs would be. That's actually what I had in mind when I did the slot thing, by making more smaller ports would give me a better more level sound. Now I know (thank's to you) that I should have at least stuffed some polyfill between the slots or something like that and not just leave them wide open. Plus the backsides of all those boards had no insulation or anything on them so probably had a lot of reflections going on inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
Probably...........
GM
I've been trying to capture what I'm hearing on video but haven't succeeded. I was trying different things on my camera mic to help it.....It was a little better but still not as nice as I'd like it to sound for posting purposes.
Some Rango.
Rango on new 12CuFt cabs.wmv - YouTube
I haven't seen that movie (RANGO). It's a remake of "Jungle Book", right? I love that song "The Bear Necessities" you should show that clip next time! ;) (kidding)Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
But seriously, the only way you'll be able to even come close to capturing on video what you're hearing in the room would be with a different setup. First of all, you'd need a video camera that can accept a stereo "line in" instead of using a "built in" microphone on a video camera. Then you'd need two "good" microphones, set up a decent distance from your speakers. You'd want to plug the microphones into a soundboard, and run the stereo line out of the soundboard into the stereo line in of your camera. Or, instead of a soundboard, you could plug the two microphones into a stereo tape deck and run the stereo output of the tape deck into the stereo line in on the video camera (using the tape deck for "gain" -- to get the signal loud enough for the camcorder). That would, at least, get you much closer to what you're hearing in the room. You'll just never be able to get a good enough recording that will sound like what you're hearing from your 604's with the built in mic that you're using. Not to say the clips aren't worth posting, but don't bang your head against the wall trying to capture something that your mic can't do---it's no fun trying to chop down a giant redwood with a rubber hatchet!
Dangit...my next project was to cut down a redwood with a rubber hatchet too. :D Yeah I know, technically my camera has stereo microphones in it but their right next to each other so basically useless. I don't think Rango has anything to do with jungle book as far as I know.... But maybe your right. Tomorrow is payday so I'm going to get some more stuff for the speakers. will update when I have something of value to contribute.
I was kidding about Jungle Book -- that's why I put "(kidding)" and the winking smiley after my comment. I'm sure it has nothing to do with Rango...... Looking forward to the update on your speakers.....Quote:
Originally Posted by cradeldorf
Quote:
Originally Posted by voice of the theater
Ok yesterday I did the backs up with 3/4 x 15 inch gaps on both sides...45 sq inches of port total,
sounded pretty good. Then today I put 6 of those 1 5/8 x 8 x 16 patio paver blocks in the bottom of both speakers. That brought the mids up considerably and the lows down and solid. Really sweet sounding now. Grills next.
EDIT: I put together a vid to let you hear them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-6Yzm48d04
Ok Grills are in...I might fiddle with a few tuning changes like making the slots in the back an inch wide instead of 3/4 just to see how that sounds but other that that, I think They're done.
Cradeldorf, Great thread!!!! Thanks for sharing!!!!!! Very cool that these actually look like something that altec would have made!!!!
Nicely done, though the distorted picture makes it look like a widescreen RPTV. ;)
GM
If you put a false grill in the lower portion covering the baffle, they'd look like giant upside down model 15's.
Very handsome build!
How about some Altec badges to support the team?
That's what I'm putting on mine ! I got a nice shiny set !Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
@Cradeldorf Very Nice ! You do great work with your woodworking ! :smile2:
Great Job ! :cool2:
That's funny!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by GM
Those are really beautiful--great job--glad to hear that they also sound as nice as they look!
Bahahaha That's exactly what I thought when I saw the picture!!!!!!. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GM
I actually have been thinking something like that. I want vintage looking ones though since my 604's are 1954 and a 1964. I'll check Flea bay. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bowtie427ss
I like the looks of these but clearly cheap knockoffs.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Alte...item1e681a1b08
I'm impressed that I can now hear all the little under the breath innuendo's in movies now. I also feel like I know what you guys are always praising about the vintage Altecs. And when I crank them up they don't feel like my ears are gonna start bleeding from being so loud but the vocals and guitar plucking sound...I don't know how to describe it...absolutely no distortion?? Very Linear sounding...maybe is how I would describe it.
I just put a bid on these.
Antique Altec Rectangular Copper Badge for restoration | eBay
I bought a pair of those and also the ones with the round end and a conductor with a baton. They're a lot smaller than I was expecting. My 19s and 604 cabs have full size badges. You may end up saying "Badges, we don't need no stinking badges".
The ebay ad shows the dimensions as: Size: L 63mm x H 24mmQuote:
Originally Posted by zelgall
64 mm is 2.480315 inches. Decent sized I guess, but yes, smaller than I would have imagined from looking at the online photo. I had to use an online converter to get the inches figure. Remember when the U.S. was going to go metric!? So much for that idea..... I'd have to learn how many mm in a gallon, or how many inches in a kilogram.... ;) (kidding)
Yep I originally looked at the round ones but being an ex toolmaker I knew my metrics and could tell how small they really were. That's why I went with this set 2.5 inches by almost 1 inch It's about the biggest set they make.
there's 25.4 MM per inch.